Playoff Points for Overseas Events

[Peter]

Now that more Australian players contest overseas events and have to miss local events, it is imperative that a small scale of Playoff Points be given for major overseas events.

This list in intended as a starting point for a final list to be introduced asap, hopefully to apply in 2007. Including the NZ Teams (all Aussie team only) might be controversial.

Eligibility: Both members of a pair, or all players in a team, must be eligible for Australian Playoff Points before any Overseas Playoff Points can be earned in any overseas event.

(1) American Nationals ? only the top notch events are included here

Spingold, Vanderbilt, Reisinger: Blue Ribbon Pairs,
1st 48, 2nd 32, 3-4 24, 5-8 16, 9-16 12, 17-32 8

Nail Life Master Pairs, Mitchell BAM Teams, North American Swiss Teams, Silodor Open Pairs, Jacoby Open Swiss Teams, Summer Nationals Open Swiss Teams, Von Zedtwitx Life Master Pairs (top section)
1st 24, 2nd 16, 3-4 12, 5-8 8, 9-16 6

(2) Major World Championships

Bermuda Bowl, Olympiad, Rosenblum Teams
1st 64, 2nd 48, 3-4 36, 5-8 18.

World Open Pairs
1st 64, 2nd 48, 3-4 36, 5-8 18, 9-16 12, 17-32 6.

(3) Other Overseas Events

PABF Teams
1st 32, 2nd 16, 3rd 12, 4th 8

Zone 7 Teams Championship
!st 6 2nd 0

NEC Cup, Yeh Bros, European Open Pairs, European Open Teams, Cavendish, World Imp Pairs, World Transnational Open Teams
1st 32, 2nd 16, 3-4 12, 5-8 8

Minor Overseas Events (initially PABF Open Pairs, NZ Teams, Hong Kong Intercity Teams, Asean Teams, Lederer, Commonwealth Games) 1st 12, 2nd 6

No Playoff Points (but could be added to previous category, if warranted based on field strength):
NZ Pairs, Turkiye event in September, Governor?s Cup in Indonesia, all Regionals in America, Pesta Sukan in Singapore.

Comments please everyone.

Peter Gill

[sarts]

I like the idea and believe it should be implemented ASAP but not sure I agree with all the events listed and points allocated.

Overseas events which are invitational events should not carry playoff points unless there is a Australian qualification giving everyone an equal chance of winning these spots and hence points.

Also for winning events such as the Blue Ribbon Pairs should be worth more than winning our local ANC Butler pairs(Not taking anything away from previous winners, but the field in the Blue Ribbon is truly World Class).

[Peter]

I think it is not a new idea - Playoff Points for the Bermuda Bowl and Venice Cup seem to exist already, but I cannot find the amounts anywhere on the ABF website. Perhaps someone else can find the amounts?

Yes Adam, deleting the two invitational events (NEC Cup and Yeh Bros) is a logical modification.

The reason that the amounts are not much larger than for local events is that the counter-argument (that Blue Ribbon winners have missed the clashing GNOT back home, and thus failed to support local events) has been taken into account by keeping the overseas quantities small.

Peter Gill.

[ish]

NEC and Yeh Bros especially are very strong events and should carry some points also. Yeh bros could be one of the best fields around at the moment.

[eokkoe]

The LM Pairs final is as strong as the Blue Ribbon Final, at least in theory.

Top 10 in the Cavendish is worth more than 8 in terms of achievement.

NEC/Yeh are real events and well worth serious compensation.

If we want our eliminees to participate in World Championship events like that IMP Pairs in Verona, they ought to be worth something if we win a medal.

American Regionals are not as strong or meaningful as (say) Surfers. I can't see crediting any of them.

[DavidStern]

Hi Peter

Firstly you talk about playing overseas and missing local events. This has two meanings, because the event clash and because of limited ability to take time off and prioritising events where one wants to play. I think the scale of PQPs should reflect the two differences. In other words there should perhaps be more points where events clash with local events than where players simply elect to play in a non-clashing event.

What do you mean by:

"before any Overseas Playoff Points"

that they must have earned PQP's before they get their overseas playoff points or just some time in the relevant year. You need to clarify that if they play in an overseas event in March and have no PQPs to that point but earn a bunch later in the year do you still get the compensatory points.

I think you MUST include the following events.

Open European Championships (every 2 years) I dont regard this as insignificant including mixed pairs and teams.

The Lederer being invitational is certainly worthy of high consideration.

I would certainly consider including the PABF Pairs as an event.

What you need to do is consider what events serve the palyers well in terms of experience and quality of event. These can be set on a year to year basis quite easily.

The minute you include US Regionals you open the gate for a number of other events say for example the South African Teams. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Anyway my thoughts for what they are worth,

[Peter]

DavidStern wrote:
Peter, what do you mean by:
"before any Overseas Playoff Points"

I wrote:
"Eligibility: Both members of a pair, or all players in a team, must be eligible for Australian Playoff Points before any Overseas Playoff Points can be earned in any overseas event."

My wording is bad. I meant:

Eligibility: Both members of a pair, or all members of a team must be eligible Australian players in order for any player in the pair or team to receive Playoff Points for overseas events.

i.e Aussies cannot go overseas, team up with Meckwell and get Playoff Points. The team must be wholly Aussie.

Peter Gill.

[DavidStern]

Peter

You may be missing my point. Does one have to have PQP's before playing overseas to be eiligible or merely any time during the year in question.

David

[phm]

I think the whole point about OS PQPs is that they should be for success in events of true significance. That is they should have world class fields with sensible formats.
So you would have nationally rated events at the North American nationals and significant WBF events.
I can't think of other events that would fit this category.

[ish]

Well you might include the PABF as it usually clashes with the VCC I think. Also the Cavendish which clashes every year with ANOT.
But I agree that some sort of method needs to be implemented asap.

Ish

[Peter]

Ish wrote:
But I agree that some sort of method needs to be implemented asap.

Yes, prior to the start of the 2007 events (i.e. prior to next Monday) would be best. At the very least, it should be on the agenda at the ABFMC meeting in Canberra in January.

Peter Gill.

[Peter]

DavidStern wrote;

>You may be missing my point. Does one have to have PQP's before playing >overseas to be eligible or merely any time during the year in question.

I thought that Overseas PQP (OPQP) and Australian PQP (APQP) would simply be two types of PQP. I would have thought that you do not have to have one type in order to receive the other type, i.e. an Australian who earnt all their Playoff Pointrs overseas would be eligible. I suppose you could make a case for a minimum of 1 Australian Playoff Point in the twelve month period being a requirement.

Another issue to resolve is that APQP can be earned with up to 50% foreigners in your pair or team, but how about OPQP?
Would Ish get any OPQP if Ish - Boye, Rita - Andrew Robson won the Vanderbilt?
Or would Ish get any PQP if Ish - Vince, Meckstroth - Rodwell as a Team of Four won the Spingold?

Peter Gill.